First of all, if you haven't seen this movie and want to you should stop reading in order to not learn all the secrets of what this movie is about. Second of all, this movie is so not worth it that if you do continue to read, you'll probably know more about what happened in the movie and its secrets than anyone who's actually viewed the movie.I've gotten a lot of hits on this site for people are looking to "What the crap went on in this movie!?" This might be a common segment if I keep getting hits like this.
If anyone has any other questions regarding what happened in this movie that I don't answer feel free to contact me at film.geeks@yahoo.com. I also want to say that since I had no hand in this movie other than viewing it, the views I express could be wrong. Telling you this movie is a waste of talent is, however, correct in every way.
1) Were Zach and Avi real?
A. No they were not. Zach and Avi represented people Jake created in order to deal with Mr. Gold. Try to think of them as a split "Tyler Durdan". They were never Jake's cell mates, they never taught him about chess or cons, and that how they knew where Jake had hid all his money.
2) Who was Mr. Gold?
A. Mr. Gold was the ego Jake created in jail. Mr. Gold represents the side of Jake that wants to destroy Macha and obtain vast riches. Anything revolving around Mr. Gold's character, such as his drugs and his assistants were paid for by Jake unknowingly.
3) What was the rare blood condition Jake had and how was he saved from it?
A. It seems that Zach and Avi could have some control over Jake's body. I doubt the blood condition was real but maybe appeared to be real to convince Jake when he went to the doctors.
4) Why the animation?
A. This was to give you hints that what Jake was seeing were not only not real but also what elements of Jake's subconsciousness they were.
5) What was Zach and Avi's plan?
A. Since they were part of Jake's subconscious, he created them to help him get rid of Mr. Gold. Since Mr. Gold would use Jake to destroy himself, Zach and Avi were created to help Jake get rid of Mr. Gold. They were also trying to show Jake how to get rid of his Mr. Gold by telling him what he's doing is helping to take down Macha. This set up the "chess pieces", if you will, on how to position Jake into getting rid of Mr. Gold. Remember, Avi was the persona that taught him chess and he's the one who keeps on convincing Jake to go along with their plans. Likewise, Zach is the one in charge of setting up Macha, since he was the con artist persona.
6) Why is the movie called "Revolver"?
A. First of all I think it's because Guy Richie wanted us to believe it was an action movie. So he lied a bit. It's called that because of Jake being the center and he must deal with everything that "revolves" around him. This is more the BS explanation, but I think my first answer is the real correct answer.
7) Was Macha devolving his own Mr. Gold?
A. In a way, he already had a Mr. Gold. In fact, we all do. The main difference between Jake and everyone else is that his was a more defined separate identity.
Any other questions I receive I will put into this list so check back for updates if there are any new questions. I will just put them in the same list. Hope this helps, other than telling you not to watch the movie, this is at least some help
86 comments:
thank you SO much for breaking it down!! I could not make sense of this film until now. And I have searched the internet for helpful answers, but only you set my mind right! God bless!!
It's only my pleasure. Once I saw a lot of people come to our site looking for answers, I knew I had to try and help. It's pretty sad that so many people didn't get the movie, not for any fault of theirs, but that of Guy Richie and his awful story. I hope he goes back to "Snatch" type movies and not these "Fight Club" rip offs.
I liked it.
finally! i, like anonymous, have searched the internet for an answer for quite some time, without any luck. until now!
i saw the movie with a friend of mine, who at that time, watched it for the third time. he said that he finally got it that time and refused to give me an answer on what the fuck the movie was all about. instead he said that i had to watch it again, and i refused. i liked the movie though but not so much that i would go through it twice to understand it.
Dude, I think you are soo wrong with your interpretation of this film. Jake and Avi were real for starters... ahh I'm not even gonna go into it but, if you watch the special features of the film it is evident that Ritchie intended them to be real. I think it is funny how you think that you "understand" the film... and from this you think that you have the right to say it's a horrible film and blah blah blah. You say it's pretty sad that so many people didn't get the movie. It's even sadder that you "think" you got it.
I disagree with you Paul
I think this interpretation is true.
Guy intended Jack and Avi to be real but only in Green's mind...
Each time we can see Green, Avi and Zach, people around them don't seem to see the 3 of them...
now the real question is. does green actually exist?
Were Zach and Avi another personality or just something that he created in his mind ?
another personality as in multiple personality disorder i mean
You are wrong about of couple of things.Avi and Zac are real, they have fought “Mr. Gold“/ego and won. They have faced their ego and defeated it so now they “control” Mr. Gold and they can use him. They are the only ones who have faced Mr. Gold and lived.
Actually, Avi and Zac said they weren't real, why shouldn't we believe this? No person in the whole movie actually really talkes to Ave or Zac, which is quite unusual, even for spli personas in movies, which we can see in "Fight Club" for example.
In the elevator szene, Mr. Gold complained about "them" to be with Jake later then Mr. Gold himself, so who should this "them" be else than Avi and Zac?
Moreover, the fact, that two prisoners just escape prison as if they weren't there is unlikely - plus they didn't even plan the breakout, Jack said this, when he talked about them. And yes, they survived Mr. Gold - actually they defeated him, so why does this mean, that they have to be real, someone said this here?
We all have a Mr. Gold inside us, which is our "only" enemy in the end ... The comments after the movie explained this. After understanding this klimax of the movie, it is also explained, why Mr. D developes his own "Mr. Gold".
everything was in 3's
the dollar bills = twelve
the bags= multiples of 3
three eddies
avi, zach and jake = 3
Remember he was married to Madonna during the period of time that this movie was developed and the Kabbalah factored heavily into the movie, including the number 3, the 13th floor, etc. All I am trying to do is grasp the last 3 minutes of the movie. Is it really just a simple, chess move of donations to the charity invoke feelings and doubt, throw him off kilter with his request for forgiveness, when faced with a reformed, now serene, former thug like himself it causes him such a crisis of identity he shoots himself? Is that ritchie's point? Any ideas??? (I would rather he made Snatch and Lock, Stock movies too, this one did have it's good points, buy nothing compared to those two.)
If they weren't real and you say there is no eye contact (like they aren't there) then why in the first scene where Green hands that first guy the bag of $- he's standing behind the dude and the guy is staring at Avi the whole time then looks back at Green when the money is handed to him. That alone kind of throws out the "not real" theory.. Sorry
The fact that everyone is looking for answers and that it is necesary for this blog is a sign of Ritchies success. He has always had the abilty to take everything he told you during the movie scramble it up and make you say WTF? when the credits start rolling. I also believe that Zach and Avi to be a ulter ego of Green and I also believe that Green is Gold. Green = Money = Gold
The reason I think so is that Jake was explaining in the begining of the 2 cel mates who shared chess moves with each other by writing it in the back of books and shows in the last minutes of the film Jake writing the moves and working it out.
Was it confusing? Yes
Wil anybody but Guy really know every secret to the movie? Maybe not
All I know is that it was extremely entertaining and had much more of an after effect than Titanic. I think the only way to really figure this movie out will be with a notepad a remote and a lot of weed.
Cheers
I think it's wrong to say that a director has succeeded when he confuses the audience. Like "Inception", I think the director made it confusing just because. Does the top stop at the end thus showing this is indeed the real world? I'm the director..CUT...no one really knows. I call that a cop out. I don't think Guy was trying to tell a story on what is reality and what isn't, like "Waking Life" or "Eternal Sunshine Of A Spotless Mind" did...I think he just didn't do that great a job at telling the story clearly enough.
Sorry to ressurrect an old thread, it was interesting to read. I think this opens an interesting debate I often have as to various opinions on what a "good" movie is and what a "bad" one is.. Most typical American viewers prefer films with total clarity and the Syd Field style screenwriting of 3 acts with a resolution that wraps things up in the end and allows the viewer to move on to the next film. However, many European filmakers like to leave ambiguity in films to generate viewer interpretations. This is not to say it's "bad" storytelling. It's just not from the typical Stephen Speilgberg school of filmaking. David Lynch is popular in France and gets most of his financing from Studio Canal due largly to his work appealing to that audience. Michael Haneke(Cache) is quoted as saying "Hollywood likes to make disposable films that people forget about after a day".. The fact that Revolver has generated so much debate to me is a good thing. Personally, I feel it's Guy's best film. Just my opinion, though.. Please don't flame me for it.:)
My point is, I don't think REVOLVER is some kind of test, and whoever "gets" the film is a winner. I believe Guy was more than capable of making the script and filmed scenes "clearer", but he chose not to. Going back to Lynch, I had read the original screenplay for LOST HIGHWAY. Very clear, the story was more linear, scenes described with no questions raised as to what was going on. In the filmed version, many of these parts were cut. When asked, Lynch said that he did that on purpose.
Can somebody explain something to me? How do Avi and Zach manage to blackmail a man like Jake with a fact that he is going to die within a few days? That's completely illogical ! You can't blackmail me by saying I'm gonna die for a few days, unless you don't have a cure. And they don't, do they? Like, he's gonna give them all his fortune and obey everything they say and they will protect him those 2-3 days from being shot by the Mocha's hitman, but he is certain to die after 3 days!? What a hell? I would never agree, unless you have a cure for my sickness. What's the difference for Jake? He would die anyway within a few days - being shot or by the blood illness. You can't post conditions on a "dead" man, because he has no chances - he's dead anyway. Only if you can survive you would obey. So, can somebody explain this hole in the story, as for me it ruins the whole movie. I really have a very bad opinion about this movie and all its complexity, as it fails basic logical flow.
I cant believe all of you are so wrong, Zac and Avi were his cell mates, Zac was the con artist and Avi was the chess master, did you not watch the movie?. It was about destroying ego's and killing the enemy inside.
igor.... Zac was a con man. thats how they got and messed with the medical results . thats how he got green to do what he wanted for those three days. even though you'd do differently if you knew you were going to die. doesnt mean mr green would, keep in mind its a movie. also mr green wasnt really sure what to believe, even though both doctors told him he was going to die. he just went along for the ride because he wasnt sure, and he was being conned at that time. the cell mates promised they would take him with them. they just had mature him a little bit before.
Well, I think this movie is called "Revolver" also due to the way Green hurt Macha in the first way: he used the credit type called revolving credit or just "revolver" - borrowed money from one Eddie and repaid to another, which turned out to be a top class con.
abt d question of avi and zach being illusions i think dey are...c most of us want to grasp d big picture in d event v loose d little details...der wer 2 scenes dat caught my attention.1.the d scene abt zach giving a card to green printed "take the elevator" that was maybe to make green confront his alter ego directly..he also dint talk about the 1rst card to d man behind him(i no tat he blacked out even before he could talk but he could hav talked abt it later)and i think this was the "changeover" as in "fight club" and the guy who walked past him to climb down the stairs i think dint c d card.2.the card at his door steps"pick this up" while he was opening the door..the door was already opened so tat the hitman could shoot from inside,to make it more precise every1 started to shoot at the door..so he knew someone was in there so he bent...need someone to counter my argument so that i understand the movie..."dk"
Clandestine said...
One can see it both ways, in the original movie Avi tells Jake in the end "We din't do this because we like you, we did this beacuse... we are you" and that means that they're not real BUT in the Directors Cut this scene never occurs which can be interpreted differently, that they were real. I, personally don't think that there's a correct difinition on wether or not they are real.
well Clandestine u just said d answer den...d director was clear in not wanting us to c d other version...and with the scene in the end of the movie with a dialogue like that now makes it like a summming up of the mystery behind both avi & zach...and i can sum up to give the verdict that "zach and avi wer really indeed greens delusion...thnk you....dk
ok i would just like to point out that i JUST finished watching the movie, and now im interested. i agree with most but not all of your theories on this movie, that being said i think since it is such a vague film, its easy to come up with our own facts and twists, and we comming up with ideas and thinking about movies is a good thing. its what makes a movie fun to watch. now, one thing i agreed with initially and now have come to question is, you said zach and avi were not real, but if you remember when jake was talking to his brother on the phone, his brother talked about the two guys he was with, which i'm just guessing, refers to zach and avi. but either way. im going to have to watch it again...and again...and again...and so forth. but yeah great movie and great thread! almost as fun to read as watch! lol
would just like to add to my rant, avi's comment at the end of the movie, "we didnt do this because we like you....its because we are you." , to me, doesnt define them as real or unreal...its all a matter of conception. it can be looked at two ways,
one: the words "we are you" could be taken literally, saying that both zach and avi were just in jakes head.
two: the words "we are you" could mean that they were once like him, or in his situation.
Just finished watching for a second time and I have to say that I enjoyed it. Ritchie really went for it and I appreciate any artist who dives head first into the infinite. However, I also think it lacked a crisp final resolution, a keystone per se that allowed visage of the true meaning of the film to be undeniable. My take is that Mr. Green is still in his cell. He represents new money, or man. Mr. Gold represents old money, or God. D. Mancha is the devil. Mr. Sorter, the assassin, is Mr. Green's soul. Mr. Sorter has very strange mannerisms, like someone who has been stuck in solitary? He has a lot of screen time, and for a film where every detail is so deeply layered, his character is of great significance in my opinion. Also noticed the name "Li Rosh" on janitor uniforms when gassing and stealing the powder from Lord John and the Money from D. Mancha. My head is swimming... lot's of fun. I enjoyed it, I think if Guy Ritchie made this film again he could clean it up some how to make the meaning clearer, I for one would love to see it.
No-one is supposed to get it. It's up to you to come up with your own theories. Stop arguing as to who is right as you are both right. Ritchie probably has no definitive answer but could agree with all your theories.
This explanation so damn off its not even funny.This movie is based off a game of chess,its not all in his imagination,the characters are representations of chess pieces.
read this
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060704095616AAah5eL
I think Macha's idea of Mr. Gold was another example of internal struggle. Especially represented in the last scene as he is weeping and saying "Fear me" over and over. He is a very powerful man in the movie, yet he still feels like he is helpless because there is still someone somewhere that is more powerful than himself. Again, the ego talking. I enjoyed the movie although, I asked myself many times why Jake was going along with these plans if he felt he was to die in 3 days. Personally if I found I had 3 days to live I woul spend those 3 days fucking, fighting and doing whatever I wwanted. Especially with sufficient funds. Anyway, I think it is a decent movie, so long as you are willing to analyze things and come to the appropriate conclusion and explanation.
Igor,
I had the same question concerning why Jake would be blackmailed over a medical death sentence. What difference would it make to die a day or two earlier?
It's also interesting because the money he handed over would be worthless in three days.
I think the plan was to have his ego die in three days. I was reminded immediately of the book "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.
Maybe Richie figured many people would be so dumbfounded they would watch it several times, making the movie more "popular".
Ok, no one got it yet so here you go: the movie is about good and evil and the only true evil that exists in the world is that which we create. depok chopra at the end tells you this: man is so smart that he created the devil to have someone to blame for his evil other than himself. remember the old phrase, "the devil made me do it."? avi and zac are real and they were both in prison on either side of green to teach him a lesson; they are his tormentors for his crimes. they are his demons and they were his guardian angels but they are real. they spoke to him through notes, vanished or "evaporated" and were missed and searched for by the guards. when green goes to dorothy macha, aka Mr. D or just Macha to toss a coin for the money, upon leaving, he is handed a card: "take the elevator" which would have spared his fall and kept him out of the hospital. again, at his house, he looks down and sees a card that says: "pick this up" and saves his life. further zac shows up at just the right moment and saves his life again. this is what guardian angels do! I won't give it all to you but they are still conning the con man, jake, still trying to save him. ultimately they do. and Gold? He represents God. "even Gold won't touch them" refers not to anything other than angels do God's work, which is exactly what avi and zac are doing.In the end, Jake asks for forgiveness and has finally done something good with his money. this movie is rife with symbolism, religous and otherwise. does it suck? that's up to you, but any movie that lingers on after it ends has accomplished something, even if it is just to foster further thought and consideration.
Wake up Mr. Green
Mr Gold = EGO
Avi and Zac have faced "Mr Gold" and are actually concious (CON + CHESS) and therefore control the Game as they see fit. They are as as real as anything. Having escaped (from the prison of their minds) they intend to free the (rather Green) Jake as well. In order to do this they help him to realising that his EGO is controlling him. Jake learns to give up his desires for money, love of fear, suffering and the drama of his life in general.
Incidentally this makes him, from an unenlightened view, somewhat unfeeling, illustrated by his lack of reaction in the final scenes.
Macha and everyone else always had a "Mr Gold", it is only focused on at the end of the movie where he is unable to cope with the "new" Jake.
I loved the movie and understood the concept from the first time I watched it, all you need to do is pay attention. One thing tripped me out though… I just watched a different version from the one I have on DVD. I don’t know if it was the director cut or what… but can you help me out with that…?
lilly Walker???
Who was she and how did "Mr Gold" have her and an entire entourage working for him?
Yeah it makes sense that Avi and Zack are not real as they disappear from their cells without a trace and no further explaination given. I reckon Jake made them up while in confinement because he was incredibly lonely.
I have to take exception that the title "revolver" was meant to trick audiences. If you are revolving, doing the same thing over and over, going around and around, you are not "evolving". The film is about Jake getting his mind back. Not going in circles, but moving forward. This is a film that a small fraction of audiences will understand. If a person doesn't understand it and doesn't want to, how about saying you just didn't get it, instead of "it sucked"? Oh, because your ego won't let you admit that perhaps you just didn't get what Ritchie was trying to bring across. Fantastic movie, with lots of re-watch potential. I didn't exactly review it, but gave a bit of an analysis on what it meant to me; http://freddysopenmind.blogspot.com/2011/11/guy-ritchies-revolver-our-ego.html
Your explanation of Avi and Jake is completely off. I'll admit, my 1st reaction was the same as yours, that they were in Jake's mind (like Fight Club). But there were too many instances if those two interacting with other people in the movie: when Jake first handed Mr. green his card, he told Jake's guy yo hold on while he told him he was in trouble; while collecting money from the Oriental man, the man told them that he wouldn't borrow money from them if he had another choice. You probably assumed that because at the end of the movie, Avi spkoe on the subject that Mr. green was having in his own mind, but that is still the wrong conclusion... they were the men from prison. and they wanted to free Jake from his own ego, his Mr. Gold. they made him give all of his money away to humble him because 'nothing humiliates more than a little money loss and public humiliation" ... So not agreeing with your explanation of some of the most important characters, how can i agree with the rest? i don't, but good try anyway
what many of you have watched was not the real revolver. the revolver that you watch on netflix has been edited. the real one has a confrontation at the end with green, macha and billy's daughter. it also shows sauter beening killed. i havent been able to find it anywhere else but my hard drive, how i got it i dont know. until you watch this version the movie wont make sense.
Has anyone remembered that the first time Jake meets Zach, before the fall on the stairs, one of Jake's guys responds to his presence, whereby Zach says "relax" to said guy?
This isn't opinion based on interpretation, it is a scene in the film.
what does this mean for the theories above?
******Has anyone remembered that the first time Jake meets Zach, before the fall on the stairs, one of Jake's guys responds to his presence, whereby Zach says "relax" to said guy?
This isn't opinion based on interpretation, it is a scene in the film.********
That's a good point, but I happen to think that Jake's "guys" are also in his head. Why would they be surrounding him as he is getting checked out at the hospital? Not saying I'm right, just saying that's the way I interpret it.
This film is how you look at it, there are many great points made...need to see the uncut version.
You don't see what's right in front of you Mr. Green
i didn't think it at first but maybe Avi and the other guy ain't real. before Jake confronts Macha with the powder at the end, Avi says something like, "We're not doing this because we like you. . .we're doing this cos we are you." What else could he mean by that?
If someone wanted to try to explain some of the different things, such as the slot machine shit at the end. This gave me the impression that they were supposed to be god figures.
Another thing was when he gets knocked out, and then ends up in his bed. He couldnt knock himself out then un-knowningly walk back home. And the weird women who met with macha, who the hell was that if mr. gold was green.
I don't know anything about anything, but this guy's answer seems to fit far better with the movie than your "FightClub ripoff" answer: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060704095616AAah5eL
I love this movie and i don't even understand it despite watching it about 200 times. I don't get the lady that talks about Mr.Gold not giving second chances and her significance. Anyway this movie messes up my head but a good lesson to people that you are your own worst enemy, because yourself would be the last place you would look. That's just my interpretation.
haha.i came here in the hope of a straight answer as to wtf this movie was all about-after reading through the list of comments one thing is certainly clear to me-its a load of nonsense,although i do believe liota's performance is worthy of note...excellent presence and played with max effort,well done that man
"Anonymous said...
Mr Gold = EGO
Avi and Zac have faced "Mr Gold" and are actually concious (CON + CHESS) and therefore control the Game as they see fit. They are as as real as anything. Having escaped (from the prison of their minds) they intend to free the (rather Green) Jake as well. In order to do this they help him to realising that his EGO is controlling him. Jake learns to give up his desires for money, love of fear, suffering and the drama of his life in general.
Incidentally this makes him, from an unenlightened view, somewhat unfeeling, illustrated by his lack of reaction in the final scenes."
THIS! Mixed in with some Kabbalah symbolism. The OP completely missed the point of this film. Comparing it to Fight Club and it's irk demonstrates this point perfectly. There is no split personality here other than a criminal mind letting go of the ego controlling him.
The OP is an idiot. Spouting nonsense such as other characters not reacting to Zach and Avi when all three are in the one room...watch the bloody film proper. There are at least two scenes where your "expert analysis" on the characters are completely poo pooed.
Mr Gold WAS NOT created by Jake.
Zach and Avi WERE NOT created by Jake.
Back to the drawing board mate. There's nothing sadder than a film geek that doesn't understand film themes and symbolism.
I'm watching it now and would really like that sunbed room matcha has
You've got a point bruv with the remote, note pad and a lotta weed. Truth!
hello admin!
(first of all excuse me for my english)
i thin you have great answers about questions, which questions disturb users who watched this movie.
i think you explanations are Right, but i add only one - i think this film made by richi according to Sigmund Freuds labours, - id, ego and super ego.
and i think mr.gold is not ego, he is - id, and Avi and Zacs are - ego
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego
hello admin!
(first of all excuse me for my english)
i thin you have great answers about questions, which questions disturb users who watched this movie.
i think you explanations are Right, but i add only one - i think this film made by richi according to Sigmund Freuds labours, - id, ego and super ego.
and i think mr.gold is not ego, he is - id, and Avi and Zacs are - ego
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego
I believe Zach and Avi were real people, in fact they killed someone in the movie and pistol whipped Jake in his head, not only that every person they loaned money acknowledges them and speaks to them, they have a reputation as loansharks
If you watch the "golf" part of the movie where Avi is swinging the club on the rooftop, you would all understand that Avi, Zach, and Gold are all in Green's mind. Evidently, most of you are assuming even though the movie clearly states that Jake has conjured up this whole thing on his own... there were never real people... it was all in Jake's mind - sort of like a multiple personality disorder.
I think the first rule of Revolver should be we don't talk about Revolver.
I am amazed that no one here has realised some obvious points.
Avi & Zach were real, and escaped (probably with the help of the book delivering twins and/or paid off guards) a few years before Jake, and began setting up the game as Jake's history and contacts promised an excellent opportunity for fun, profit and a new accomplice. They took Jake's stashed money and created Sam Gold (who is NOT the ego, just a fictional king-pin) as the ultimate instrument against Macca, as Macca otherwise feared no one.
Their key lesson to Jake is that you can only win by often doing the opposite to your instinctual reaction, as that is what usually makes things worse or causes you to fail.
Macca was a very powerful man with a lot of henchmen hence would only ever fail if he felt someone bigger than him (Gold) was going to terminate him, and probably very painfully.
In the closing scene when Avi, Zach and Jake go back to the casino, one of the remaining henchmen LOOKS at Avi, so of course he was real.
The bluray cut of this movie has some added scenes and also Jake's neice is being held at the poolside.
I could go on but there are 2 things I don't know that I want to mention - did jakes brother survive after Sorter went off? The bluray cut shows Sorter being shot and the niece taken but the DVD didn't (I think). Also, why did sorter have a 'bad feeling' and miss Jake 3 times? That suggests to me that Avi and Zach had affected Sorter somehow, perhaps through suggestion or other influence to put him off his game. Sorter may have even been an informant to Avi and Zach as they knew what was happening all the time, such as where the powered was being kept in the safe.
I LOVE this movie, and my favourite line is when Macca says "you speak to me like I'm a fuckin idiot?" outside the elevator after Jake visits him.
So many people just don't understand the elevator scene at all, yet to me is was quite simply Jake pushing aside ego.
To reiterate - Same Gold is NOT the ego, he is a creation of Avi and Zach to ultimately cause Macca to fail.
Finally, Thank you Mr. Richie for creating a very thought provoking films and what should have won numerous awards - it will certainly outlive crap like Twilight etc. Please make something like this again...
your wrong Pauline saw them all. also zach saved green with a car and submachine gun (not previously in greens possession)
completely agree with you. sooo many things wrong with what that guy thinks
its nothing like fight club. green is not gold. avi and zach are real. and its called revolver becouse your thought process revolves while trying to difine it - due to the ego and its nature of hiding within its self.
zach and avi are seen by Pauline. also at the very begining in the casino one of jakes men and zach have a confrontation. further more (as i stated above) zach saves green with a car and submachine gun (not previously i greens possession)
zach and avi are seen by Pauline. also at the very begining in the casino one of jakes men and zach have a confrontation. further more (as i stated above) zach saves green with a car and submachine gun (not previously i greens possession)
AGREE!
it all happens in his head. his one f***ed up dude, like we all are. the movie is a metaphore for the fight between the been and the ego. avi and zach represent intelligence and cleverness. thats what he starts 'using' to be free... they are the only ones that can defet the ego...
-James Stupples
I come back to watch this movie every few years or so to see if I can determine what actually occurs during the film.
This time I adapted a non-bias approach and feel this to be the most suitable approach to analysing this film. There is no definitive outcome, only the potential outcomes you choose to believe/accept
OUTCOME A; The film was not set out with clear direction. The producer intended to create vagueness and succeeded.
This Offers up views as to the reality and representation of specific characters and events(as seen through this extensive thread) due to potential, deliberate plot holes.
E.g. if Zach and Avi are not real why does Zach save Mr Green when he is being shot at and drive him away? why do their loanshark customers look and speak to them direvtly? and why at the end do we see Avi playing chess by himself in his cell without Mr Green even present?
OUTCOME B; The film was set out to have specific meanings/representation but failed to project them clearly. (The producer ultimately failed to deliver).
Within the film there are a few scenes that disprove from what I can see on this thread, every theory. Could these actually be mistakes on the producers behalf.
Outcome C: YOU (the audience) choose what the producer intended this film to be about and deicide if it was indeed even a good or poor movie because your concept/idea cannot be wrong...can it?
Ironically a lot of the people who have come to this page to look for answers have instead posted their view on the film (their ego is telling them that they are right and they are defending it).
Personally I believe this movie was created in such a way that the producers wanted to create a film that caused debate and vagueness "OUTCOME A".This was created by including what I would describe as mis-leading scenes, resulting in a section of the audience to dislike the film "OUTCOME B". The remaining audience is divided in opinion in "OUTCOME C"...was this an accident or deliberate I cannot decide?
While YOU may not love the film, I have got news for you. You just watched a movie that was created 9 years ago and you have come to a page to discuss and argue your view and disproves other peoples opinion. A stroke of genius or beautiful mistake...I still cant decide what this film is. I guess I'll watch it in another couple of years and try again :)
I think that Zach and Avi could also be interpreted as being the left and right brains. Jake is the consciousness created by the two, and Mr Gold is the ego that consciousness constructs. The other characters represent aspects of of the combined ego and consciousness because, of course, we can never lose the ego, only master its control over us.
Simply from the amount of thought given to this movie it is a great movie... but; I think a lot of the confusion comes from the two strangely different versions released. First I saw the one in which Sorter prevails slightly wounded but with enough presence of mind to clean his glasses and I thought "what an important movie" for its statement about the ego as the enemy within. Then I watched the one in which Sorter is killed - and in which Avi claims to be Jake - and thought "WTF!?" From reading the comments here I wonder if everyone realizes that there are two very different cuts of this movie. Of the version in which Sorter survives I thing it is a brilliant restatement of the teachings of the Buddha. Of the version in which Sorter is killed I still think "WTF!?"
Brilliant thought provoking movie think alot maybe they wasn't real. Maybe nothing is real and it's a matrix kind of outlook who knows but like art everyone has their own perception and this film is ment to give the indivdual an indivdual perception this film can teach us all alot and everytime I watch I notice a different underlying theme.
good points here and there. i guess the need of further discussion on it's own makes movie worth it. acting was well too. this year it's celebrating 10 years since it was filmed!
If you want to know the answers then read the bible. Think time in the wilderness/desert and then the money lenders.
first of all , there is a 2005 release and a 2006 release, the 2006 release is very different from the 2005 chronologically and there are even scenes 'missing' with a different ending. for example in the 2006 version avi walks past a bunch of slot machines slightly touching them with his finger and making them all go jackpot, and if avi is not real he's not mind reading jake in the rooftop scene! so I understand that having avi and zach not be real characters makes it easier for people to understand this film, and also to not have to adress the fact that this ego/mr.gold very much aplies to all of us and there are different but very real practises like 'meditation' etc. aimed at getting rid of your own personal mr.gold/ego also called the state of enlightenment! but you dont believe in any of that crap am I right!? therefore the multiple personality disorder is a much more comfortable explanation for you ;)
in my opion Avi and zach are real and have a special relationship with jake, and the only reason for the events in this film to take place is beacease he wasent ready to be confronted with himself yet. oh and if there not real schizo jake would have some pretty weird conversations with the japanese! how do you pull a gun on yourself(a revolver) and horowitz where avi finger snaps at jake etc. then theres the doctor. first time meeting zach jakes brother and all of his people look at zach as if he's real, zac has a car and shoots at sorter, then theres elly walker. charleene or whatever the black girls name is who knows avi and zac and interacts with all three. jakes brother who gets info on mr.gold and warns jake about him
etc. etc. etc. NO your just not ready to sonfront your own Mr.gold ;)
The amount of ego in this post is incredible (Ironic right? haha). Everyone thinks they are right. This film can be interpreted in so many ways - every time I watch it it makes me think about it differently - depending on my state of mind at that moment. It is a thought provoking work of art. Rarely does a film initiate this level of debate which is what makes it so great. And remember - IT'S A FICTIONAL MOVIE - it doesn't have to make sense!
Well played Guy Ritchie! I hope you consider making more movies like this!
Also to whoever pointed out the 'cons + chess = conscience' - I never even noticed that! Pure genius!
Dude, since nobody seems to get the simple fact that Avi and Zach are indeed real...listen to the commentary. Your making it way too difficult for the sake of just being difficult. Keep it simple stupid.
It was Jake's curiosity that led him to accept their help...starting with Zach giving him the card saying take the elevator...green said himself...how could they know what they couldn't know.
And yet you're on this site because you googled it. You fucking dikchead. O fuck your yourself! I hope you have a good a time as I did pounding your mum last night. Don't worry she called me Mr gold. Cunt.
I think the point is not about who did what and who is real. It's an allegory, so it makes no sense to talk about Zach and Avi being Jake's delusions/illusions/made up personalities. If anything, in this allegory Mr. Gold is the delusion Jake has to face.
The prison Jake is in, it is really the prison of peoples minds, an illusion we believe and live. The problem of getting out of this kind of prison is that it's all in the mind, so getting out of prison can also be an illusion we imagine. Jake thinks he is out of prison, but really he is not free at all. However, the process of freeing himself has started in that prison, but he doesn't know it yet. He is still doing what his ego (Mr. Gold ?) tells him to do: get money, exact revenge... To him, his ego is himself while Zach and Avi are outside of himself, so they must be his enemies (he argues in his head about this). And it's no wonder, because Zach and Avi take his comfort away, all his money, security, pride...
Little by little he starts to doubt the voices in his head and all the dramas that go on inside. On the other hand, he starts seeing that he has a lot in common with Zach and Avi, and they don't seem like strangers any more. His brother tells him to get away from those guys, because like all of us, he fears the truth, and is trying to get Jake to come back to the world of Mr. Gold. In the golf scene and after in Macha's bedroom, Jake fights in his mind against what Zach and Avi are saying to him: that everything he thinks he knows about himself and Mr. Gold is an illusion, and that he can find the enemy in the last place he would look, inside his pain. It literally pains him to apologize to Macha. Then, in the elevator scene he finally confronts himself, or better yet, remains calm in the face of his ego screaming, seeing that he cannot be that entity. And only after that can he understand when Zach and Avi tell him they are him.
We could interpret that Zach an Avi are not actual persons, but some aspects of himself that he discovered.
Or that they are real persons and at the same time are himself in the sense that they are now the same, they all know the truth about Mr. Gold. Free men are all one in essence, because they are what they are; it is only people that are not free that are trying to be special, different and unique, just to get a slap on the back.
In the end, because Macha fears Mr. Gold and cannot confront Jake who is now free of Mr. Gold, he actually kills himself rather than having his ego hurt anymore.
What if Mr Gold was created by Avi and Zach,because they were the only ones who remained alive ,after they met with 'him' -is a clever idea to create the King, as the people seems to see it and aspire to him .Their perception about what a man should be is enslaving themself . A image that they want for people to acknowledge ,such as fear,power . If people didn't validate their ego-the image that they depend upon ,what would remain in themself - self doubt, because they identified with their ego and it seemed to be rejected by the others.I think the idea of movie is great , because so many people wouldn't recognised that they fake themself in order to gain the 'pride' of beign acknowledge as something more superior . An illusion of people ,that will never stop. 'Mr Gold ' is still depending on the others,how much they continue to support him and fear him. As long as people will not respect that position as worshipers , 'Gold ' is nothing .
The terminal blood condition is belief. Jake was absolutely certain of his world, once his inherit belief was broken down his terminal condition was gone. His belief, his ego, pride and fear would have killed him. Other parts of his mind, (Avi and Zack) worked to save him.
I think Avi and Zach are real.At the beginning of the movie when Jake sees Zach for the first time, right before he falls down the stairs, someone tells Zach to move out of the way. Around the 9 minute mark. Someone says, "Hey buddy we're coming through here." to Zach.
Embrace the pain...
Film was ok not his best work but a thinker none the less but what i am very impressed by is the 10 Yr conversation u all are havin, now that is a conundrum ��
Desde luego esta peli esta mal hecha, pero... PERO, PERO, PERO SU TRASFONDO ES MONUMENTAL Y GENIAL ; "LA LUCHA CONTRA EL EGO, CONTRA SI MISMO", creo q es Hollywood tratando de sacudirse esa mierda, furcia, pendenciera y ya clásica estratagema de ganar rating o dinero de sus superproducciones hechas para las masas y loS ignorantes que quiereN solo estímulos violentos.
BUEN INTENTO GUY RITCHIE !!!!
I belive Jake Green developed multiple personality disorder while in solitary confinement. Perhaps, he feared Macha, and hated himself for it. While in confinement he developed the plan with quamtum physics to get his revenge with "alter egos Jake and Zach. It was not about the money for Jake. It was about destroying Macha and let him know that he no longer feared him.
Also, Jake's fear causes him to black out. During this time, Avi and Zach are in control and phone calls, deals, give away money etc.
Another thing that is still strange is that none of Macha's men,especially Paul seem to have ever met Avi and Zach or knew a few information about them.
Avi and Zach might be Jake's alter egos, as for Macha, Paul might be his alter ego.
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